I’d say that Lady Russell’s fault lies in what Austen willing offers up about her character-that she is blinded by titles. I think this plays into her discouraging Anne to marry Frederick Wentworth and also her timidity in first calling out Sir Elliot’s extravagant, above his means lifestyle as well as her willingness to so easily accept his refusal to acquiesce to her suggestions to economize. This might also be why she is not more forceful with Elizabeth, she bows to Sir Elliot given his high title and Elizabeth as follows since she is so similar to her father. It seems she is stuck in the frame of mind that those of higher rank call the shots. I wonder if she had been of any other rank-equal, above, very far below-if she would’ve so willingly supported Sir Walter in his distaste for Anne and Wenworth as a match? Or if this fault in her is engrained by a belief in the class system as a means of separating the importance of persons and their opinions. I’m sure further reading will illuminate her character in this regard more fully.
Yes. I think that's absolutely her blind spot. Sir Walter and Elizabeth are both AWFUL and while Lady Russell seems to partly care for them because of Lady Elliot, her wonderful friend, she also seems to give them a bit of a pass because they're nobility.
Nov 20, 2023·edited Nov 20, 2023Liked by Haley Stewart
Yayyyy so excited for this one! Are you able to link to the CS Lewis essay or is it not available online?
As a fellow yenta and pathological busybody, I have every sympathy for Lady Russell. She loves Anne, she wants to protect her from her own youth and inexperience (and lack of a mother) and she thinks the best way to do that is to discourage her from marrying as an economic gamble. And I’m not sure she was wrong! Didn’t Fanny Price’s mother make the same bet (a nice man with neither birth nor fortune and uncertain prospects) and lose?
It’s easy in retrospect to say she was wrong because Frederick turned out to make his fortune and be respectable - but in the British navy during the napoleonic wars, a lot of that was luck and the kinds of strength/skills that would be impossible to evaluate at the beginning of a career. And it’s easy in these more meritocratic times to say marrying for economic security is overrated. But I’m not sure it is 🤷♀️
That’s true and very clever of you to spot the similarities between poor Mrs Price and Lady Russell’s fears for Anne. I was going to write ‘Lady Russell is a pill’ but you have made me think again !
If she was actually going to be right she could have suggested a long engagement as they were so young and in the navy he could make money but she wouldn’t have allowed it anyway because he wasn’t a baronet
I found most of my sympathy for Lady Russell to come from her recognition of how unappreciated Anne is and from her attempts to show Anne the love and partiality that her family does not. Lady Russell is thoughtful and practical in the way that she arranges for Anne to stay with her for a while before having to join her family in Bath, for instance. But there are a few hints here and there that Lady Russell is not wise in every instance, such as her one-foot-in-one-foot-out mentality when mediating between Anne’s budgetary suggestions and Walter Elliot’s vanity. She also tends toward a bias for rank and title, and doesn’t seem to attribute Anne’s “lack of spirits” on her first trip to Bath to her grief over her broken engagement.
It's been a few years since my last re-read of Persuasion, but I'm inclined to agree with Elizabeth Lima's comment sympathizing with Lady Russell. While it probably would have been more prudent of her to counsel a long engagement over a flat-out refusal, who's to say her advice was bad? Would Wentworth even have had the success he had if he wasn't driven to prove himself after Anne's rejection? The fact that he's so clearly still hung up on her when they get thrown together later is a clear indicator that proving a point to Anne was a huge motivator. 🤷🏼♀️
Really enjoying the posts and discussions in comments even though I'm not currently re-reading with y'all. I love Persuasion!
Hi, Mrs. Stewart. I'd love to read C.S. Lewis's essay on Jane Austen. Can you please tell me the title of the essay and which of Lewis's books that it's in?
The Netflix film is trash, please avoid it. There is a 2007 BBC miniseries that is ok, but I am partial to the 1995 movie with Ciaran Hinds as Capt. Wentworth.
I agree! 2007 is okay, and the 1995 is slightly better. But I don't think there's a really perfect version. Like Mansfield Park, it's very difficult to convert the story to film.
I can understand Lady Russell. My mother is a little like that. She finds security in things being proper or based on their exterior image. Lady Russell can see the extreme vanities of Sir Elliot and Elizabeth and she can see the value of Anne's mind and heart. But she can't overcome her basic need of security or 'properness' and (in her genuine opinion) it was not proper for Anne to marry Wentworth 7 years earlier. I don't blame Lady Russell and I don't think I could say she was wrong to discourage the engagement. Maybe Anne lacked fortitude or courage (which are required to be the wife of a sailor) at that time that 7 years of regret can produce.
I’d say that Lady Russell’s fault lies in what Austen willing offers up about her character-that she is blinded by titles. I think this plays into her discouraging Anne to marry Frederick Wentworth and also her timidity in first calling out Sir Elliot’s extravagant, above his means lifestyle as well as her willingness to so easily accept his refusal to acquiesce to her suggestions to economize. This might also be why she is not more forceful with Elizabeth, she bows to Sir Elliot given his high title and Elizabeth as follows since she is so similar to her father. It seems she is stuck in the frame of mind that those of higher rank call the shots. I wonder if she had been of any other rank-equal, above, very far below-if she would’ve so willingly supported Sir Walter in his distaste for Anne and Wenworth as a match? Or if this fault in her is engrained by a belief in the class system as a means of separating the importance of persons and their opinions. I’m sure further reading will illuminate her character in this regard more fully.
Yes. I think that's absolutely her blind spot. Sir Walter and Elizabeth are both AWFUL and while Lady Russell seems to partly care for them because of Lady Elliot, her wonderful friend, she also seems to give them a bit of a pass because they're nobility.
Yayyyy so excited for this one! Are you able to link to the CS Lewis essay or is it not available online?
As a fellow yenta and pathological busybody, I have every sympathy for Lady Russell. She loves Anne, she wants to protect her from her own youth and inexperience (and lack of a mother) and she thinks the best way to do that is to discourage her from marrying as an economic gamble. And I’m not sure she was wrong! Didn’t Fanny Price’s mother make the same bet (a nice man with neither birth nor fortune and uncertain prospects) and lose?
It’s easy in retrospect to say she was wrong because Frederick turned out to make his fortune and be respectable - but in the British navy during the napoleonic wars, a lot of that was luck and the kinds of strength/skills that would be impossible to evaluate at the beginning of a career. And it’s easy in these more meritocratic times to say marrying for economic security is overrated. But I’m not sure it is 🤷♀️
Yes! You can find it here: https://undeceptions.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/A-Note-on-Jane-Austen-Lewis.pdf
I have the Essays on Criticism collection ed. by Walter Hooper and it's great.
Great point about Fanny's mother--yes!
Thank you!!
That’s true and very clever of you to spot the similarities between poor Mrs Price and Lady Russell’s fears for Anne. I was going to write ‘Lady Russell is a pill’ but you have made me think again !
You May be right too - no reason she can’t be both right and a little hard to swallow. Speaking for myself, I am probably most a pill when I’m right😂😂
I’m sure you are not a pill ever
If she was actually going to be right she could have suggested a long engagement as they were so young and in the navy he could make money but she wouldn’t have allowed it anyway because he wasn’t a baronet
I found most of my sympathy for Lady Russell to come from her recognition of how unappreciated Anne is and from her attempts to show Anne the love and partiality that her family does not. Lady Russell is thoughtful and practical in the way that she arranges for Anne to stay with her for a while before having to join her family in Bath, for instance. But there are a few hints here and there that Lady Russell is not wise in every instance, such as her one-foot-in-one-foot-out mentality when mediating between Anne’s budgetary suggestions and Walter Elliot’s vanity. She also tends toward a bias for rank and title, and doesn’t seem to attribute Anne’s “lack of spirits” on her first trip to Bath to her grief over her broken engagement.
I think her wise perception that Anne is both a very special person and very neglected by her family is her really shining characteristic!
It's been a few years since my last re-read of Persuasion, but I'm inclined to agree with Elizabeth Lima's comment sympathizing with Lady Russell. While it probably would have been more prudent of her to counsel a long engagement over a flat-out refusal, who's to say her advice was bad? Would Wentworth even have had the success he had if he wasn't driven to prove himself after Anne's rejection? The fact that he's so clearly still hung up on her when they get thrown together later is a clear indicator that proving a point to Anne was a huge motivator. 🤷🏼♀️
Really enjoying the posts and discussions in comments even though I'm not currently re-reading with y'all. I love Persuasion!
Hi, Mrs. Stewart. I'd love to read C.S. Lewis's essay on Jane Austen. Can you please tell me the title of the essay and which of Lewis's books that it's in?
It's in a collection called Essays on Criticism. The essay can be found here: https://undeceptions.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/12/A-Note-on-Jane-Austen-Lewis.pdf
That essay was insightful and enjoyable. Thanks again for sharing it.
Thank you, Mrs. Stewart. Happy Thanksgiving.
I love Persuasion. So many people love P &P but I just love Persuasion the mostest. I wish there was a lovely movie! Is there?
I don't know about Lady Russell. Well intending but meddlesome perhaps...
The Netflix film is trash, please avoid it. There is a 2007 BBC miniseries that is ok, but I am partial to the 1995 movie with Ciaran Hinds as Capt. Wentworth.
I agree! 2007 is okay, and the 1995 is slightly better. But I don't think there's a really perfect version. Like Mansfield Park, it's very difficult to convert the story to film.
Agreed!
Yup I was wildly in love with Ciarán Hinds in 1995
I can understand Lady Russell. My mother is a little like that. She finds security in things being proper or based on their exterior image. Lady Russell can see the extreme vanities of Sir Elliot and Elizabeth and she can see the value of Anne's mind and heart. But she can't overcome her basic need of security or 'properness' and (in her genuine opinion) it was not proper for Anne to marry Wentworth 7 years earlier. I don't blame Lady Russell and I don't think I could say she was wrong to discourage the engagement. Maybe Anne lacked fortitude or courage (which are required to be the wife of a sailor) at that time that 7 years of regret can produce.