2. I LOVE mrs. Bennet. She reminds me of my mom and grandmother in their silliest moments. The difference is, while my mom and grandma did sometimes focus on worldly/shallow goals for our family, they also instilled us with a moral character and a deep sense of self worth. I think mrs. Bennett’s obsession with marrying off her daughters is a red herring - in a mother who also educated her daughters (intellectually and morally) better, it would be a forgivable foible. But because she has so radically shirked that responsibility, it goes from farce to tragedy.
I am still waiting on my copy from Ava Maria Press, but I am re-listening to my Rosamund Pike audiobook (and very excited to discover she also narrated Sense & Sensibility). I’d say Mrs Bennet is justified in worrying about her daughter’s futures, but because she is a woman of “mean understanding” I think her anxiety is out of proportion to her husband’s health, and her housekeeping doesn’t not reflect that someday she may need to be very economical. Honestly her worries seem more about her sense of self importance and a desire to always be the center of attention/the victim in any situation.
1 Reading literature makes it easier to find moral lessons because we can see character's inner worlds as they make choices. Having lived through tough situations with the fictional characters we can be better prepared for when we face it ourselves.
I read P&P for the first time at 17 years old. It was eye opening for me. I realized that maybe classmates I thought of as snobs were just introverted. And perhaps they thought the same thing about me. And then when Elizabeth told Darcy that he could exert himself to practice conversing with strangers, I was so shocked. It shattered my idea that quiet people were just quiet and that's all there is to it. I'll never be the life of a party, but from that day I made an effort to be friendly and inviting, even if it's outside my comfort zone.
P&P encouraged me to connect more deeply with other people and to look beyond my assumptions about others and myself.
2) Mrs. Bennet is a fun character, but such a lacking mother. I do have to applaud her for how she treats Mr. Darcy after he insults Elizabeth. He may be one of the richest men in the whole country and the most eligible bachelor ever in their town, but as soon as he disparages one of Mrs Benet's girls he is detestable to her.
I like that comment too, about practicing to get more comfortable interacting with people. One really does need to be able to interact with others, and Darcy seems to think his status gives him a pass.
1. For me, reading great literature has been one of the most important factors in the formation of my own moral imagination. Reading allows us to experience the consequences of living according to a variety of moral/religious/philosophical standards and evaluate whether or not such standards are worthy of acceptance or rejection. It’s one thing to know the definitions of certain virtues and vices, it’s quite another to see them incarnated by the characters of literature. Especially on the “vice” side, we can learn about evil through literature without making dangerous decisions ourselves: we learn about how tempting and dangerous a Mr. Wickham’s flattery can be and hopefully avoid his counterparts in the real world. Humans are social animals, and we learn best by example and imitation, and supported by community. We can find examples worthy of imitation in great books (like Austen’s novels) and the very act of reading invites us into communion with the author and our fellow readers.
2. As a teenager first reading Pride and Prejudice, all I could focus on was how atrocious Mrs. Bennett was. At a phase in my life when I was most prone to feeling embarrassed by my parents (despite them being incredible people) I found it impossible to justify Mrs. Bennett’s behavior. In addition, as a hopeless romantic with no real world relationship experience, I found her financial focus, when it came to marriage, repugnant. However, adult me has much more sympathy with Mrs. Bennett than I ever expected to have. While her actions remain unjustifiable, her concerns are valid. Her daughters have literally no way to live in the world other than getting married. They are not educated enough (which, to be fair, is her and her husbands fault) to support themselves even if the society of the time would allow for that. And as an adult, I know how much stress poverty and poor financial decisions can place on even the most loving of relationships. I think that, while Austen censors Mrs. Bennett’s decisions and generally vulgar personality, she’s much more critical of a society that produces women like Mrs. Bennett, fosters Mrs. Bennett’s financial/transactional view of marriage, and pressures otherwise sensible women like Charlotte Lucas into marriages of convenience with characterless partners.
Preach! Love your answers, especially to the first question. I also think that reading Even casual fiction forces you to view the world from another persons perspective and in doing so, stretches your empathy muscles so that’s easier to do in real life.
Thank you! And absolutely! Getting inside someone else’s head is so crucial-I’ve been trying to diversify my casual fiction buying this past year for that reason...now I just have to attack that big stack of to reads 😂
2.) Mrs Bennet and her behavior - I totally agree with previous comments indicating a change of view as I have aged! Now with a 23 yo son who is searching for his soulmate, I am irritated that Mr AND Mrs Bennet did not take their parenting responsibilities seriously. It is an issue that is time irrelevant-couples marry for looks, have children, and then don’t take parenting seriously and raise children who may get lucky in life (Elizabeth and Jane) or children who don’t (Lydia). Ok, now I am stepping off my soap box :) LOL
1.) Does or can good lit help us become holy? Interesting question. Typically I read spiritual books or Catholic authors or participate in Catholic women’s studies in order to grow in holiness. I have always looked at good lit as formative in feeding my mind with good things but not necessarily as a path to holiness specifically. Reading Bishop Barron or Tolkien or Haley Stewart (shameless plug for our coordinator LOL) is a much better path to holiness than so much of the garbage that is out there.
I agree that the Bennet sisters’ only hope for a decent life is marriage due to the culture they live in. For that reason, I believe Mrs. B’s concern is justified, but her obsession grew to a point of desperation that it’s so cringey. I also wonder how much of this is Mrs. B’s way of distracting herself from her own unhappy marriage?
1. As you mention in your book, it is easier to behave virtuously when you have a model to follow as opposed to someone just defining it for you. Literature can provide these models in a fictional situation which provides a safe way to vicariously observe before being put in such a situation ourselves. And it can do it all in an engaging manner. And even virtuous characters can have vices and seeing how they deal with them can help us deal with ours.
2. Mrs. Bennet is one of those characters who is a lot of fun to read about but, if met in real life, would most likely be absolutely intolerable. She does have a right to be alarmed about her daughters future, especially since Mr. Bennett seems to lack any interest in making sure his daughters will be cared for when he dies (something which I don't think is discussed anywhere near enough). It's just the way she goes about it that is the issue. The first thing that stuck out to me is that Mrs. B is a hypocritical gossip. She gets all upset about Darcy's comments on Elizabeth when just before she said that Bingley didn't seem to admire Charlotte and that indeed no can admire her. And when checking up on Jane at Netherfield she makes sure to mention that the Lucas sisters are plain unlike her Jane. She could have played up Jane's looks without bringing other people into it. The visit also showed that she has no clue how she comes off to other people. She had no concern that her plan for Jane to stay longer got her sick. She may not intended it to happen and she's right that it won't kill her, it's still not something to be happy about. And yet when Jane and Elizabeth come home earlier than she wanted, she says they shouldn't have because Jane could have fallen ill again. And as Elizabeth Liam pointed out, Mrs. B has not instructed her daughters on moral character. Not that Mr. Bennett seems all that interested in giving his daughters moral instruction beyond his eldest. Maybe if he attended to his youngest as he did his eldest the whole situation with Lydia might have been avoided.
Side note: chapter 6 has Charlotte saying that Jane needs to be more obvious in her affection for Bingley because he doesn't know her disposition like Elizabeth does. A bit of foreshadowing there.
2. I LOVE mrs. Bennet. She reminds me of my mom and grandmother in their silliest moments. The difference is, while my mom and grandma did sometimes focus on worldly/shallow goals for our family, they also instilled us with a moral character and a deep sense of self worth. I think mrs. Bennett’s obsession with marrying off her daughters is a red herring - in a mother who also educated her daughters (intellectually and morally) better, it would be a forgivable foible. But because she has so radically shirked that responsibility, it goes from farce to tragedy.
I am still waiting on my copy from Ava Maria Press, but I am re-listening to my Rosamund Pike audiobook (and very excited to discover she also narrated Sense & Sensibility). I’d say Mrs Bennet is justified in worrying about her daughter’s futures, but because she is a woman of “mean understanding” I think her anxiety is out of proportion to her husband’s health, and her housekeeping doesn’t not reflect that someday she may need to be very economical. Honestly her worries seem more about her sense of self importance and a desire to always be the center of attention/the victim in any situation.
1 Reading literature makes it easier to find moral lessons because we can see character's inner worlds as they make choices. Having lived through tough situations with the fictional characters we can be better prepared for when we face it ourselves.
I read P&P for the first time at 17 years old. It was eye opening for me. I realized that maybe classmates I thought of as snobs were just introverted. And perhaps they thought the same thing about me. And then when Elizabeth told Darcy that he could exert himself to practice conversing with strangers, I was so shocked. It shattered my idea that quiet people were just quiet and that's all there is to it. I'll never be the life of a party, but from that day I made an effort to be friendly and inviting, even if it's outside my comfort zone.
P&P encouraged me to connect more deeply with other people and to look beyond my assumptions about others and myself.
2) Mrs. Bennet is a fun character, but such a lacking mother. I do have to applaud her for how she treats Mr. Darcy after he insults Elizabeth. He may be one of the richest men in the whole country and the most eligible bachelor ever in their town, but as soon as he disparages one of Mrs Benet's girls he is detestable to her.
I like that comment too, about practicing to get more comfortable interacting with people. One really does need to be able to interact with others, and Darcy seems to think his status gives him a pass.
1. For me, reading great literature has been one of the most important factors in the formation of my own moral imagination. Reading allows us to experience the consequences of living according to a variety of moral/religious/philosophical standards and evaluate whether or not such standards are worthy of acceptance or rejection. It’s one thing to know the definitions of certain virtues and vices, it’s quite another to see them incarnated by the characters of literature. Especially on the “vice” side, we can learn about evil through literature without making dangerous decisions ourselves: we learn about how tempting and dangerous a Mr. Wickham’s flattery can be and hopefully avoid his counterparts in the real world. Humans are social animals, and we learn best by example and imitation, and supported by community. We can find examples worthy of imitation in great books (like Austen’s novels) and the very act of reading invites us into communion with the author and our fellow readers.
2. As a teenager first reading Pride and Prejudice, all I could focus on was how atrocious Mrs. Bennett was. At a phase in my life when I was most prone to feeling embarrassed by my parents (despite them being incredible people) I found it impossible to justify Mrs. Bennett’s behavior. In addition, as a hopeless romantic with no real world relationship experience, I found her financial focus, when it came to marriage, repugnant. However, adult me has much more sympathy with Mrs. Bennett than I ever expected to have. While her actions remain unjustifiable, her concerns are valid. Her daughters have literally no way to live in the world other than getting married. They are not educated enough (which, to be fair, is her and her husbands fault) to support themselves even if the society of the time would allow for that. And as an adult, I know how much stress poverty and poor financial decisions can place on even the most loving of relationships. I think that, while Austen censors Mrs. Bennett’s decisions and generally vulgar personality, she’s much more critical of a society that produces women like Mrs. Bennett, fosters Mrs. Bennett’s financial/transactional view of marriage, and pressures otherwise sensible women like Charlotte Lucas into marriages of convenience with characterless partners.
"It’s one thing to know the definitions of certain virtues and vices, it’s quite another to see them incarnated by the characters of literature." Yes!
Preach! Love your answers, especially to the first question. I also think that reading Even casual fiction forces you to view the world from another persons perspective and in doing so, stretches your empathy muscles so that’s easier to do in real life.
Thank you! And absolutely! Getting inside someone else’s head is so crucial-I’ve been trying to diversify my casual fiction buying this past year for that reason...now I just have to attack that big stack of to reads 😂
I love your point about reading P&P in highschool made you hyper awear of awkward families.
2.) Mrs Bennet and her behavior - I totally agree with previous comments indicating a change of view as I have aged! Now with a 23 yo son who is searching for his soulmate, I am irritated that Mr AND Mrs Bennet did not take their parenting responsibilities seriously. It is an issue that is time irrelevant-couples marry for looks, have children, and then don’t take parenting seriously and raise children who may get lucky in life (Elizabeth and Jane) or children who don’t (Lydia). Ok, now I am stepping off my soap box :) LOL
1.) Does or can good lit help us become holy? Interesting question. Typically I read spiritual books or Catholic authors or participate in Catholic women’s studies in order to grow in holiness. I have always looked at good lit as formative in feeding my mind with good things but not necessarily as a path to holiness specifically. Reading Bishop Barron or Tolkien or Haley Stewart (shameless plug for our coordinator LOL) is a much better path to holiness than so much of the garbage that is out there.
Loving the insight posted so far.
I agree that the Bennet sisters’ only hope for a decent life is marriage due to the culture they live in. For that reason, I believe Mrs. B’s concern is justified, but her obsession grew to a point of desperation that it’s so cringey. I also wonder how much of this is Mrs. B’s way of distracting herself from her own unhappy marriage?
1. As you mention in your book, it is easier to behave virtuously when you have a model to follow as opposed to someone just defining it for you. Literature can provide these models in a fictional situation which provides a safe way to vicariously observe before being put in such a situation ourselves. And it can do it all in an engaging manner. And even virtuous characters can have vices and seeing how they deal with them can help us deal with ours.
2. Mrs. Bennet is one of those characters who is a lot of fun to read about but, if met in real life, would most likely be absolutely intolerable. She does have a right to be alarmed about her daughters future, especially since Mr. Bennett seems to lack any interest in making sure his daughters will be cared for when he dies (something which I don't think is discussed anywhere near enough). It's just the way she goes about it that is the issue. The first thing that stuck out to me is that Mrs. B is a hypocritical gossip. She gets all upset about Darcy's comments on Elizabeth when just before she said that Bingley didn't seem to admire Charlotte and that indeed no can admire her. And when checking up on Jane at Netherfield she makes sure to mention that the Lucas sisters are plain unlike her Jane. She could have played up Jane's looks without bringing other people into it. The visit also showed that she has no clue how she comes off to other people. She had no concern that her plan for Jane to stay longer got her sick. She may not intended it to happen and she's right that it won't kill her, it's still not something to be happy about. And yet when Jane and Elizabeth come home earlier than she wanted, she says they shouldn't have because Jane could have fallen ill again. And as Elizabeth Liam pointed out, Mrs. B has not instructed her daughters on moral character. Not that Mr. Bennett seems all that interested in giving his daughters moral instruction beyond his eldest. Maybe if he attended to his youngest as he did his eldest the whole situation with Lydia might have been avoided.
Side note: chapter 6 has Charlotte saying that Jane needs to be more obvious in her affection for Bingley because he doesn't know her disposition like Elizabeth does. A bit of foreshadowing there.